Opening Note: Joe Palmer thinks he’s all that. He didn’t like my Fisking his compassionately juvenile “Jesus Wouldn’t Deport Illegals” screed. Initially, he was simply dismissive; then when challenged, he devolved. He’s come back for another round. He starts with an attempted defense of his indefensible characterization of Adolph Coors as an illegal alien. My contention is that since the first immigration laws that would have excluded Mr. Coors were not yet even in draft form and would not be enacted for seven years after his arrival, casting him as an example of an “illegal alien” is disingenuous at best. Using it to “sell” today’s illegal aliens as being somehow noble in is nonsensical. It comes across as similar to some bizarre excuse an uninformed adolescent might make to a cop after being caught committing some petty offense.
Here’s what he has to say now:
Uh, no, KD. You still don’t get it. Adolphus Coors stowed away on a ship which sailed to the United States. Stowing away is a crime and was then, too. In the days of sailing vessels, it was viewed as a particularly serious crime by most masters and companies. Being caught stowing away could net the stowaway anything from a severe flogging to indentured servitude. Because Mr. Coors’ committed a serious crime (theft), to facilitate his entry into the United States, his entry was therefore illegal and he was, by anyone’s definition, an illegal immigrant. He was an alien for a period of time after having arrived in the the U.S. by illegal entry, thus making him an illegal alien. The naturalization law in effect at the time he entered decreed that one must reside within the U.S. five years before petitioning for citizenship. Of course, I knew all that when I wrote my column, but since it’s not germaine to the point I was making, I elected not to include it.
Stowaways were subject to Admiralty Law, and perhaps to the laws of the nation under which the vessel was flagged. Only by your convoluted and nonsensical definition was he an “illegal alien.” And your comparing Mr. Coors arrival to Sr. Everyhombre’s is just, for lack of a more precisely derogatory term, stupid.
Had Mr. Coors paid his passage, his entry into this country would’ve been legal and he would’ve been, from the outset, a legal immigrant and alien. Your reference to the captain of the vessel’s forgiveness and willingness to work out a repayment plan is pure fancy on your part. And you accuse me of deception. In reality, Adolphus Coors was deeply regretful of this act of theft in his later years and eventually made restitution to the shipping company. In fact, he was so ashamed of it that he forbade his family to ever speak of it, a wish that was honored for many years thereafter. But don’t take this rube’s word for it. Do some actual research. Read the story of the Coors empire. It’s pretty fascinating. Did you know that the Coors Foundation is a major contributor to conservative think tanks and causes?
There are millions of great stories chronicling the familial accomplishments of Americans. I’m always pleased when an American family has an abiding concern for heritage stewardship. The Coors story and family pride is vital. I’m proud of my distant grandfathers too. I’m proud of the one who was with Sherman in Atlanta, the one who served in Washington’s elite Continental Guard and was at Valley Forge for Christmas, the one who founded a 6000 acre plantation in South Carolina in 1692, the one who was among the founders of Lancaster Pennsylvania, the one who led the expedition with the first Charter of Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1629 and the one who captained a ship to Jamestown in 1608. The Coors family is rightfully proud of its slice of Western Civilization’s heritage; it usually takes a keen awareness of one’s place in the historical continuum to get behind conservative causes.
I don’t believe you have a journalism degree. Certainly not one from UF. And if you do, you must’ve been sleeping through the classes in ethics and law in journalism. There’s the bothersome little matter of libel you should consider if you wish to persist in your hobby. Your little screed suggests or implies that I am a drug user or a past drug user. Nothing could be more removed from the truth. I am, in fact, an honorably discharged U.S. Navy veteran of the Vietnam era and a respected member of my very Republican and conservative community. Tell me, have you ever served your country in uniform? But I digress. You should be aware that the sins of libel include not only the explicit accusation of criminal or wrongful behavior, but the mere suggestion, hinting or implication thereof. In short, my friend, you are perilously close to being bitten deeply in the jugular. I’d be very careful if I were you. You are not insulated by the anonymity of the internet. Your ISP records can be subpoenaed by anyone with a cause of action against you that is related to cyberspace defamation. You really aren’t as smart as you think or you’d know this. Getting cute with remarks about potheads in the same sentence as the target of your derision is shaky ground and it’s just not worth your while to go there. I’d be willing to bet that if I sent your ISP a demand letter from my attorney, they’d not only delete your post but possibly bar you from further activity so as to insulate themselves. Care to “fisk‘ me on that one, genius?
Believe what you like, and continue to be foolish, too. It makes no difference to me. As far as journalism ethics is concerned, I’ll always be grateful to Dr. Jon Roosenraad for his classes and counsel on the subject. To conclude that my making unflattering comparisons regarding your writing style is somehow libelous is absurd. I also find much of your writing to be muddled and nonsensical. You occupy column inches. So what? I have a blog. So what? We both have our opinions. So what? I think you sometimes you write as if you mainlined Agent Orange, and maybe you did. So what?
You use ink and are a public figure in that respect. If you can’t handle bad reviews, I suggest you find some other expressive outlet.
That you claim to be a so-called conservative and are registered Republican has little value. What matters to me is that you use your platform for promoting a markedly non-conservative and silly insistence that adding millions of Third World South and Central Americans to our franchise is just a hunky-dory idea that Jesus would appreciate. I believe with all my heart that it’s a dangerous proposition and that bringing Jesus into it isn’t much different than bringing Hitler into it. Your position is just the other side of the Godwin’s Law coin. Your ideas align with the prevalent, historically-revisionist immigration meme being promoted by most of the mainstream media these days.
The bottom line for me is that the onus is on people like you to prove incontrovertibly that mass immigration, especially in its current source forms, will not bring harm to our children’s or grandchildren’s inheritance. Since you’re in the camp of those who insist that there is no danger in changing our culture in a manner that has never been attempted - ie. making a significant percentage of future population one that has no historical ties to the thousand-generation thread that is Western Civilization - then prove you’re right before you act further.
We don’t have the luxury of a do-over if I’m right and you’re wrong, and our kid’s lives might suffer for it only if we listen to you.
You’re mighty proud of yourself for having “exposed” me. Actually, the only thing you exposed was your limited ability to comprehend. And comparing yourself to an luminary like Benjamin Franklin? My God, man. How much hubris can one person have? As I said, you hide behind the cloak of anonymity and your silly screen name. Pure, unvarnished cowardice. Tell me, is B.E. Brockett also a nom de plume?
Yes, it is. I wish I didn’t have to have as clients and subcontractors an assortment liberals, globalists, cultural relativists and other folks who have drunk too deeply of the PC, diversity, multiculturalist Kool Aid, but I do. I wish it were not necessary, but when I feel like delving into polemics, I write here. When I feel otherwise I have other places I publish, both under my real name and other monikers.
Let me enlighten you a bit more before I retire to an evening of stargazing on this lovely beach. You obviously aren’t a very diligent researcher. I’m a guest columnist for the little “cage liner” (Bravo, KD. How original!) for which I write a weekly column. My real profession, in addition to being extremely lucrative, has nothing to do with journalism. It has, however, enabled me to hone my powers of observation to a razor sharp edge. I can spot a phony, impotent fool a blogosphere away.
I think you need a new blade, this one’s dull.
No, KD, I’m not a real newspaper reporter, though I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. I used to be a newspaper reporter when I was a young man. I didn’t get my degree at UF but another Florida university. In addition to all the other journalism awards I accrued over my years in the business, I was nominated twice for the Pulitzer Prize - once on my own and once as part of a team. Needless to say, my creds are sound. I wonder if you ever set foot in a newsroom as a reporter, KD? I think not.
Actually, the longer I hung around “real newspaper folks,” the less I desired going into reporting as a profession. I loathed the left bias even before I fully understood the left/right continuum. The brief time I spent as a stringer for the Alligator gave me my fill. I’m glad you’re proud of your Pulitzer nomination…but it doesn’t impress me much. And I’m sure my awards and accolades and nominations wouldn’t do much to impress you either.
If you have indeed read my other columns, you would know that I’m something of an iconoclast. Nothing and no one is sacred. I go after everybody and everything sooner or later. I had a good bit of fun attacking the PC Police just this week in my latest “rant.” Have you been Hannitized, KD? Methinks you have. You have the same pathetic tendency to take people out of context and mislead your tiny little following of “readers” with slanted, spotty information heavily larded with nonsense and opinion. How many readers do you have, KD? I can assure you, I have regular readers all over the world. I’ve received letters and e-mails from people as far away as Thailand. Judging from the occasional responses to your little ejaculations, I’d venture to say you’re pretty much your own audience.
If there’s ever been a case of near libel here, it’s anyone comparing me to Sean Hannity. Call me a pothead instead. Please. Hannity’s just not that bright…although he does serve a good purpose in articulating conservatism for people who aren’t capable of delving into it deeply.
As far as readership is concerned, I don’t know how many readers I have right now. I know that when I was posting here daily, both my hit count and visit length was a lot higher. Now, most of my stuff that gets high readership is at posted at other blogs and under other names.
In closing, I’ll say this. My children are quite proud of me for what I do. My youngest, a 22-year-old recent college grad in management with a major corporation told me just yesterday evening that he and his brother would be ashamed of me if I weren’t the kind of man that I am and if I were the kind of father who just agrees with the masses and says, “Mega-dittoes.” My legacy will be my willingness to make unpopular statements from time to time while putting my face and name alongside them for all the world to see, all the while knowing full well that unhappy and perpetually angry men like you will hide in the darkness of anonymity and lob bombs at me as I pass. I thank you for that, KD. It strengthens my resolve, sharpens my wit and keeps me in copy.
Congratulations. You care about your kids and they’re proud of you. That’s so unusual. Funny…I care about mine, too. And I want to hand down to her a nation that is not transmogrified into something that would disgust her ancestors. Your thoughts about immigration, if implemented, would transform the nation her children inherit into Jefferson’s nightmare “heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.” If you truly believe yourself to be a conservative, then I’m just going to point out that what I see in your writing is a sort of “compassionate conservatism” that has more in common with the thoughts of Marx than of Burke.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from a lounge chair on a beach just this side of reality.
The same to you. Here’s to hoping that our nation hasn’t been bastardized to the point that your great grandchildren don’t appreciate your service to in the military. Right now, I’d say it’s up in the air.















5 responses so far ↓
1 A.G. // Dec 11, 2007 at 1:11 am
Joe Palmer must have very little on his plate to be spending so much time defending his ridiculous opinions for some “anon” blogger. Anyone who has to go to such lengths to defend himself on a site he sneeringly mocks as having a “handful” of viewers is possibly:
A) Bored out of his mind from counting how many jellyfish washed up on the shore today.
B) Ran out of scintillating tidbits about the local crabcake hut.
C) Left alone for yet another weekend while his family did more important things, like cleaning the lint out of the dryer.
At any rate - KD, you rock. JP, you’re nuts. I live around a bunch of Mexicans. They can’t talk to me because 1) they know little English and 2) most of them are illegal so why do they want to risk getting to know me?
As far as bringing this very volatile issue into the realm of religion (for the love of pete…), I’d like to point out that God Himself created nations. Why? Did you ever ask yourself that one?
I have a good mind to email you. However, at this moment I have better things to do such as sleeping. I’ll revisit tomorrow and may do just that.
2 Rick Darby // Dec 11, 2007 at 10:25 am
KD,
Wonderfully entertaining dialogue. Palmer can write about as well as the average journalist — faint praise — but it’s interesting for the ad hominem quality of his argument. He takes it oh so personally. Well, I suppose if I was God’s ambassador to Earth, I would too.
3 A.G. // Dec 11, 2007 at 11:01 am
I said I’d write more and I have. This argument has riled me because of its patently false premise that the Jews of many millennium ago (who were commanded to welcome foreigners), had the same situation we face today. Of course during that time, there were no solid boundaries that defined Israel from its neighboring peoples, nor did the Jews have respect from those people groups as being a sovereign nation.
Joe Palmer’s article isn’t the first time I’ve read about how we should appear benevolent and righteous by showing “compassion” to those here illegally. Many have been suckered into thinking that being a doormat is what was meant by our forefathers in welcoming newcomers to the United States.
Since Palmer brought God, Jesus, and the Bible into the conversation, I’ll start there.
First, God is a God of law. The Old Testament is proof of it. Yes, the Jewish people were commanded to treat the foreigner with respect (which by the way, it would help his readers greatly if he gave verse references) as defined in Leviticus 19:33. But if you examined the Hebrew word used, “ger,” you would see that such acceptance had limitations.
The word “ger” means “sojourner.” This type of person was a newcomer who lacked inherited rights. In other words, they weren’t required to adhere to Levitical law but neither were they given the blessings of those laws, either.
What we have today with the millions of illegals in this country is this: Not only have they broken our laws for citizenship, they ARE enjoying the same rights given to our citizens. Those rights have a cost and quite frankly, the illegals haven’t paid it.
Palmer may see the “cost” as trudging through a hot desert without water. I know I wouldn’t be the only American who disagreed with him. The cost of being a citizen of this country is much deeper and yes, spiritual. We send our sons and daughters into battle for an ideal that all men are created equal and freedom is the most basic yearning of the human heart. This country has sacrificed much to maintain those cherished ideals but Jose who squeezed himself into the back of a semi has no clue. All he wants is a job. Sure, there are many who are hardworking but guess what else they get other than a place to work?
State-funded schools, free healthcare, a myriad of social service programs - all given by the goodness of the citizens, who have forked over higher and higher taxes over the years to pay for these interlopers.
And what of their own country? The United States has literally placed itself into an economic pretzel in order to help Mexico succeed - and for what? Just so more can pour over the border because their country can’t hold on to their end of the bargain? We have already invested a substantial amount of money into Mexico but yet Palmer has the audacity to lambast those of us who protest. Labeling us “cranks” is a weak attempt to avoid discussing the very real problems we now face.
As I said, I live around quite a few Mexicans, Guatamalans, and Columbians. I watch as their children get on the buses, getting educated at our schools who not only have to deal with the over-crowding, but communicating with them in “their” language while the children of legal citizens must wait until the “Joses” and “Marias” “understand” the lesson.
Citizens must wait in a hospital emergency room while those who speak Spanish are taken in before them. It’s especially hellish if you’re in one of the Southwest states and the ER desk is being manned by a native Spanish-speaker. And some of those Southwestern hospitals have closed their ER’s to their citizens simply because they can’t afford to give free healthcare without some type of subsidy.
We’re seeing more crime involving Hispanics against African-Americans and Caucasians. More hatred. More division. And Palmer thinks this is a good thing?
As far as a fence on the Canadian border - are you kidding me? How many Canadians are jumping the border to come into our country illegally, use up our resources, and send money back into the economy of Canada? Please.
And finally, one more Biblical reference to law. Governing bodies were created for a reason:
Rom 13:1-7
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
I truly think if you did want to bring Jesus into it, He’d be advising the Mexicans to go about becoming citizens of this great country the right way. Apply.
4 Old Atlantic // Dec 14, 2007 at 11:12 am
Its a mathematical theorem that one way migration eventually causes genetic replacement. Whether there is an intermediate mixture or not, all genes present at any time point eventually are gone as long as one way migration is sustained. This is the Wright Island Model. It was published in 1931 with further work since then.
“We investigated various cases of the island model with stochastic migration. If the population is infinite, the immigrants have a fixed gene frequency and the alleles are neutral, the gene frequency on the island converges to that of the immigrants.”
Genetics. 1979 January; 91(1): 163–176.
The Island Model with Stochastic Migration
Thomas Nagylaki
Department of Biophysics and Theoretical Biology, The University of Chicago, 920 East 58th Street, Chicago, Illinois 60637
Joe Palmer may have impressive achievements and credentials. However, even presidents, prime ministers, kings and emperors have been unable to change mathematical theorems to their liking.
5 Terry Morris // Dec 14, 2007 at 11:24 pm
My (real) name is Terry Morris. I live in Oklahoma. I’ve been married (to the same woman) for 21 years, and have six children which I intend to leave an inheritance to.
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